Rosbercon Co. Kilkenny

Danny Dowling interviewed and recorded some interesting information from elderly residents of Glenmore concerning some of the other business transacted during and after fairs and markets–faction fights. To try to put this information in context some general information on faction fighting is first provided.

Faction Fighting

Faction fighting was where large groups of rural men, and sometimes women, would meet to engage in fighting. The faction could be comprised of extended or allied families or persons from the same parish or townland. It is commonly understood that the practice continued until shortly before the Famine when reforms to the police and judicial systems and Father Theobald Matthew’s temperance crusade impacted on it. This pacification movement was also endorsed by Daniel O’Connell and the Catholic Association (Owens, p. 537). Expressions of concern over faction fighting at this time usually had more to do with the image projected than with injuries or deaths resulting from the fights. As long as the Irish could be portrayed as drunken barbarians bashing each other for fun all economic or political hardships could be blamed on the Irish character. However, “even at its worst the level of violence in Ireland was less than that of England” (Conly, p. 67).

Notwithstanding the efforts to stop faction fighting it re-surged after the Famine. Nineteenth century fiction and materials in the folklore archives at UCD suggest that faction fighting was an immensely popular and violent pastime (Thuente, p. 136) and its legend lived on in oral histories recorded in the twentieth century. Faction fighting was often viewed as a sort of release valve that prevented less controlled kinds of violence, and there were not many actual deaths relative to the enormous number of participants (Thuente, p. 137).

Carolyn Conley conducted a study based upon a Return of Outrages prepared by the R.I.C which listed the 1,932 reported homicides between 1866 and 1892 (occurring outside of the metropolitan area of Dublin), newspaper accounts of the killings and court documents. The author concluded that there was tolerance for recreational violence as displayed in faction fights among judges, jurors, police and journalists, witnesses and even victims. Recreational violence was not a form of misplaced resistance by an oppressed rural population, but a form of sport (Conley, p. 60). After the famine with more prosperity more assaults took place. “It was in the most prosperous areas of the countryside that the violent traditions were longest lived” (Conley, p. 58). The goal was not to injure or kill but to participate in a mutual display of skill and strength. Forty-one percent of all Irish homicides (outside of Dublin) between 1866 and 1892 were recreational in origin (Conley, p. 59).

 “A formal faction fight, which might involve hundreds of men on each side, usually began with the ritual of wheeling which included chants, stylized gestures and insults. The traditional wheel included the name of the person(s) issuing the challenge as well as the intended opponent” (Conley, p. 60). There were two recognised acts that signified consent to the fight. The wheel and the removal of one’s coat (Conley, p. 61). While wheels might include insults or references to past grievances, a challenge to see who was the better man would suffice for consent. Women who engaged in “the sport” took the same pride in their prowess as their men (Conley, p. 62).

“In keeping with the recreational aspect of fighting there were rules. Though supporting one’s comrades was expected, in most cases justice required roughly even sides…ganging up was not acceptable…nor was continuing to pummel a defeated opponent” (Conley, p. 61). Due to the fact that the participants had to consent to engage in the fight there were numerous instances where onlookers and witnesses expressed to the authorities that they were not in fear when a faction fight commenced, thus making a conviction for riot impossible. Acceptable weapons included: fists, feet, teeth, stones and sticks. Two and a half percent of the homicide victims in Conley’s study died from kicks and five from infected bites (Conley, p. 62).

The most popular venues for recreational fighting were fairs, markets, and races. “One hundred people died as a result of brawls in these settings, but only a third of the killers served any jail time and only nine served more than two years” (Conley, p. 65). “Brawls were such an integral part of wakes” that even deaths did not make the incidents serious to authorities. Not one person was convicted in any of the fourteen homicides that occurred at wakes and funerals (p. 65). Even in twenty-one cases in which innocent bystanders were killed, deaths from brawls were considered regrettable but not serious. Twenty-six children were killed from injuries sustained in brawls. Only seven of the killers served any jail time at all. Only four people were sentenced to more than two years for the death of a bystander. The brawling tradition began so early in life that a quarter of the children less than sixteen years of age (killed by non-relatives) were killed by another child under the age of sixteen.

Danny Dowling Interviews

On the 22^nd of May 1964 Danny Dowling interviewed Nicholas Forristal (1888-1979) of Graiguenakill, Glenmore. Nicky the Miller recalled hearing that the fair or market held at Nash in Wexford had two families that were great faction fighters, the Gunnups and Quigleys. In one of the factions was a family with eleven brothers and one sister. On one of the fair days the sister said—“There is twelve o’clock and not a stroke struck yet. She had a stone in her stocking and she started the melee by striking one of the opposition.” Nicky informed Danny that a stone in the stocking was a dangerous weapon.

Nicky stated that there were various Glenmore factions during nineteenth century at about the time his father was born in 1849 “Grants had upper side of parish, and Paddy Merrigan of Milltown, was the leader of another from the Jamestown side.” A member of the Merrigan faction was Paddy “the Weaver” Walsh from Glenmore Village. Paddy “the Weaver” Walsh cut, prepared, and seasoned the sticks used as weapons by the Merrigan faction.

“On a certain occasion in Glenmore Village before the pubs were out of it, there was a wake in Hanrahan’s house in the Village (alongside Fluskey’s). As the pub was closing members of the rival factions started drifting into the wake. It was a lovely night. Paddy the Weaver was at the wake and someone said to him it was a fine night and he replied, ‘It is a fine night but I think it will be a bloody morning.’ He was anticipating a big row.” Danny Dowling noted that the Glenmore parish priest in about 1870 caused the three Glenmore pubs to close and Glenmore parish remained dry for nearly 100 years making it a very unique Village. Hanrahan’s house in the Village where the wake was being held was the house where Danny Dowling was born in 1927.

Nicky said people were very crude and backward then, and when they got a few pints they deliberately set out to create rows. “The order of the day then was to return home from fairs and hooleys with blood all over you. That was held to be a sign that you were a good man.” Nicky stated that “Watt Power, of Jamestown, was an awful man for rising rows.” He always believed in having blood on him before returning home. He and his wife had a shebeen for awhile where Dick Whelan was living in 1964. “Watt used tell sometime that he had been fighting with Phil Dyháwdin from around Ross. Phil DyhAwdin was renowned as a fierce fighter. Watt, of course, never had anything to do with him.”

James McDonald, of Ballyfacey, Glenmore was interviewed by Danny Dowling on the 11^th of June 1970. James reported that Big Jack Ryan of Knockhouse, Kilmacow, was the first of the Ryans to come to Guilcogh, Tullogher to where Richie Ryan was located in 1970. It was due to faction fighting that Big Jack Ryan went to Guilcogh.  The Norris family, of Guiclogh, “were the leaders of a great faction fighting team and always won their combats. As they were getting on a bit, they felt that they could not last much longer at the top. Jack Ryan was a great big man and was a renowned faction fighter, so Norris said that if he could get Ryan, he would continue to win the faction fights. Norris therefore got Ryan, brought him to Guilcogh and got him married to his daughter. Ryan had three sons with this Norris girl. She died on the birth of the fourth child. After Ryan joined the Norris faction team it continued to win fights for a long period.

James McDonald stated that after his first wife died Ryan married a girl named Long and had more children. Ryan was said to have divided the farm to each of his four children from his first wife. Each of the four children received ten acres of land. The land allocated to each was too small to support a family. The four children asked their father to give them each four pounds in order for them all to go to America. Ryan gave the four children the money. The four children emigrated to America. The land reverted to Ryan and he divided it among the children he had by his second wife. Unfortunately, in reviewing early parish records the only marriage that could be located between a Ryan and Norris was in 1860 where Thomas Ryan married Margaret Norris in Guilcogh on 12 June 1860.

On the 16^th of January 1956, Walter Power (c. 1888-1961) of Jamestown, Glenmore shared with Danny Dowling a poem that the elderly residents of Glenmore recited when he was a lad. It alleges that the first faction fight in Old Ireland was “all on account of St. Patrick’s Day.”

Some fought for the eighth,
For the ninth some would die,
And whoever said wrong,
They would blacken his eye,
Until Father Mulcahy, he told them their sin,
He said boys don’t be fighting but sometimes combine,
Don’t be always disputing about 8 and 9,
Combine 8 and 9, 17 is the mark,
And let that be his birthday,
Amen said the Clerk.

Ironically, the last known faction fight involving Glenmore participants, that Danny Dowling identified, was reported in the New Ross Standard, just a day after St. Patrick’s day in 1893. Fourteen persons, including a woman, were arrested for the faction fight that occurred in Rosbercon after the New Ross fair. According to the newspaper account the court was packed with spectators for the trial of the faction fighters.

If anyone has any corrections or additional information please send it to glenmore.history@gmail.com.

[Additional information from Peter Walsh of Rathinure, Glenmore 20 May 2021–Maths and Irish Teacher, at Good Counsel College of New Ross, Mr. Toby Kavanagh, collected Irish folklore and told his students in 1969/1970 that the shillelagh black thorn sticks used in faction fights were coated in goose greese and put up the chimney for the smoke to harden them.]

The featured drawing is entitled “The Kilkenny Election,” published in the Graphic on 17 Dec. 1890 (p. 723) and depicts a scene at Castlecomer where Parnell was present when “a regular good old fashion faction fight began.” (c) The British Library Board.

Dr. Kathleen Moore Walsh

Carolyn Conley (1999) “The Agreeable Recreation of Fighting,” 33(1) Journal of Social History 57-72.

Gary Owens, (1997) “A Moral Insurrection: Faction Fighters, Public Demonstrations and the O’Connellite Campaign, 1828” 30(12) Irish Historical Studies 513-541.

Mary Helen Thuente (1985) “Violence in Pre-Famine Ireland: The Testimony of Irish Folklore and Fiction Author(s),” 15(2) Irish University Review 129-147.