Glenmore Co. Kilkenny
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Michael “Mikey” Forristal (1879-1972) of Rochestown, Glenmore [updated]
In the 1960’s Danny Dowling (1927-2021) the Glenmore historian bought a reel-to-reel tape recorder and began conducting interviews of the elderly people around Glenmore. In 1969, Danny taped an interview of Michael (Mikey) Forristal, of Rochestown, Glenmore, who was 90 years of age. Danny stored his old reel-to-reel tapes in a box and after his death his son Pat wasn’t certain what if anything remained on the tapes. Eventually Pat was able to get one old reel-to-reel tape recorder working and made a digital recording of the reel-to-reel recording. One of the most interesting aspects of Danny’s recording of Mikey Forristal is the fact that Mikey Forristal’s speech patterns were set long before radio or televisions were in Glenmore homes and influencing speech.
There were some difficulties transcribing the recording. On several occasions the interviewer and interviewee spoke at the same time. Sometimes the quality isn’t great, but the greatest challenge is that so many people in Mikey’s family had the same name. Thanks to the information provided we were able to trace a number of Forristal’s and others mentioned in the first half of the interview. Information not in the original recording has been placed in square brackets [ ].
Mikey Forristal (1879-1972)
Danny commenced the interview with identifying his interviewee, and noted that they were in the Murphy home in Ballybrahee, Glenmore. [At the time of his interview Mikey Forristal lived with his daughter Alice Murphy née Forristal (1922-2018) and her husband Luke Murphy (1927-2003).] See our post of 15 August 2021 regarding Luke Murphy.
Mikey Forristal reported that he was 90 years of age since “last April.” He was born in April 1879 [20 April 1879]. His father was John Forristal [c. 1833-1895] and his mother was Mary Gahan [1839-1917]. He quickly added that she wasn’t the same Gahan as Tom Gahan. She was from a farm in Ballylogue, Rochestown.
[My resident expert explained that there were three Gahan families in Rochestown. Mikey was distinguishing them for Danny. (1) The farm Mary Gahan came from. (2) John Joe Gahan, was known as Josie Gahan, and he had a daughter named Ellie Gahan. She married Larry Walsh of Smithstown, Tullogher. Larry and Ellie had a number of children including Martin Walsh (1918- 1996) and Maureen Lyng née Walsh who introduced Danny to his wife Molly. See our post of 31 Dec. 2023 for further information on Martin Walsh. (3) Another Rochestown farmer was John Gahan. His son Tom married Mikey’s sister Elizabeth “Lizzie” Forristal.]
Old Conn, the landlord evicted the farm that Mikey’s mother came from. They were evicted for 6 months’ rent. Mary Forristal née Gahan had two brothers who went off to America, John Gahan and Tommy Gahan.
[The parish records provide that Mikey’s maternal grandparents were John Gahan and Elizabeth Fewer. Mary’s godparents in 1839 were John and Mary Duggan. Mary Forristal née Gahan had four known siblings including: Patrick Gahan (bapt. 5 Feb. 1838); Catherine Gahan (bapt. 16 Jan. 1844); Thomas Gahan (bapt 23 Aug. 1832) and Thomas Gahan (bapt. 26 Aug. 1847)]
Mikey told Danny that they were related to each other through the Duggans. Danny’s mother, Hannah Dowling née Murphy, was a first cousin to Mikey Forristal’s mother Mary Forristal née Gahan. [Hannah’s paternal grandmother was Margaret Murphy née Duggan. See our post of 18 April 2020 for further details.]
The Children of John Forristal (c. 1833-1895) & Mary Gahan (1839-1917)
[John Foristal (labourer) of Rochestown married Mary Gahan (labourer) of Rochestown on 1 February 1864 at Glenmore. Witnesses were Thomas Bolger and Bridget Fewer. The fathers were recorded as John Forristal and John Gahan. John Forristal (farm labourer) died 7 April 1895, aged 62, at Rochestown. His son Martin was present at his death. Mary Forrstall née Gahan died 26 October 1917, aged 78. Her son Michael was present at her death in Rochestown.]
(1) Alice Kirwan née Forristal (1864-1940)
Mikey stated his sister Alice Forristal was born in 1864, she was married to Willie Kirwan. She died at 74 years of age.
[Alice Forristal (b. 5 Nov. 1864- 9 Nov. 1940) was married on 27 October 1892, at Glenmore to Wm. Kirwan (1859-1933) of Rochestown (labourer). William was the son of Maurice Kirwan (farmer). However, Alice’s obituary states that her husband’s name was Richard. ]
[Death of Mrs. A. Kirwan—The death occurred at her residence at Rochestown, Glennmore, on Saturday of Mrs. Alice Kirwan, at the age of 74 years. Deceased, who had been ailing only a short time, was widow of the late Richard Kirwan, Rochestown. She leaves three sons—Maurice, Thomas and Peter to mourn her passing. The funeral, which was largely attended, Took place from her late residence to Glenmore Parish Church on Monday for interment. Rev. W. Brennan, C.C. officiated at the graveside A number of Mass Cars were place on the grave from relatives.—R.I.P. Funeral arrangements were carried out by Mr. T. Power, Ferrybank (Munster Express, Fri. 15 Nov. 1940, p. 8).]
[We found four sons born to Alice: Maurice Kirwan (b. 20 Aug. 1893); John Kirwan (b. 7 July 1895); Thomas Kirwan (b. 7 July 1897); and Peter Kirwan (b. 28 June 1899).]
(2) Mary Foran née Forristal (1866-1912)
Mikey’s sister Mary Forristal went to America and was married to Johnny Foran of Harristown. Johnny Foran was a contractor building houses. They had 2 boys and a girl. Their eldest John Foran was in the American navy. Then there was Willie Foran who visited Ireland about 1966. The Foran children were still living in Boston. Mary died young and Johnny re-married. Johnny had all his own gear for building. He built a house for a big snob of a man, who required a stone carving over his door. Foran wasn’t used to that, but be believed in cutting out the middle man.
[Mary Forristal (4 Nov. 1866-12 Sept. 1912) married John Foran on 6 June 1894 at Newton, Massachusetts. In the 1900 Census the couple were living on Beach St. John Foran was born in February 1860 in Massachusetts. Mary reported she was born in May 1862; married 12 years in US 14 years. She had 6 children and 4 were alive in 1900. [1] Thomas F. Foran (b. Sept 1891); [2] Florence Foran (b Feb. 1894); [3] William Foran (b. May 1895) and [4] John J? Foran (b. Dec. 1895). Mary died 12 Sept. 1912 and is buried in Calvary Cemetery, Massachusetts with her children Bridget M. (1882-1949); Thomas Aloyisus Foran died (21 Jan. 1910, aged 70 months). The headstone records that John Foran was born in 1872 and died in 1940. His birthplace is recorded as Harristown, County Kilkenny, Ireland.]
[Mary’s death notice appeared in The Boston Globe (Fri. 20 Sept. 1912, p. 6) .The funeral of Mrs. Mary J. Foran, wife of John J. Foran, a well-known business man of the West Newton Section, took place this morning at St. Bernard’s Church, West Newton, with a requiem mass celebrated by Rev. Fr. F.J. Cronin. Interment was in the family lot at Calvary Cemetery, Waltham.]
(3) Bridget Forristal (1869-1936)
Mikey stated that his sister Bridget “never married at all.” She also went to Boston.
[Bridget Forrestal (sic) (b. 29 Jan.1869-2 Feb. 1936) was born the 29th and baptized the 31st. A civil record was found for a twin Richard Forristal. His birth was registered by Mary Ryan, nurse on 4 February 1869. There is no record of him being baptized in Glenmore with Bridget. ]
[A short death notice was published in the Boston Globe in 1936, “At Holy Ghost Hospital, Cambridge, Feb. 2, Bridget A. Foristall (sic) of 208 Auburn St. Auburndale. High Mass of Requiem at Holy Ghost Chapel Tuesday, Feb. 4, at 9 a.m. Relatives and friends invited (Boston Globe, Mon. 3 Feb. 1936, p. 19).]
(4) Elizabeth Gahan née Forristal (1875-1929)
His sister Elizabeth Forristal was married to Tom Gahan.
[Elizabeth Forrestal (b. 22 Dec. 1875-1929) at the age of 20, on 13 February 1896 married Thomas Gahan (farmer) of Rochestown, Glenmore. Thomas was the son of John Gahan (farmer) and Elizabeth’s father was John Forristal (boatman). The couple had at least 8 children: Mary Gahan (b. 18 Nov. 1896); Elizabeth Gahan (bapt. 23 Sept. 1898); Anastatia Gahan (b. 27 Sept. 1899); John Gahan (b. 15 May 1901); Thomas Gahan (b. 20 Oct. 1903); Martin Gahan (1905-1986) Elizabeth “Lill” Gahan (b. 12 April 1907) and Michael Gahan (b. 4 Feb. 1911).]
(5) John Forristal (1871-1934)
His brother John Forristal left home at 17. He went to Boston and worked as a policeman.
[John Forristal (b. 17 June 1871-30 Sept. 1934) At the time of John’s birth his father’s profession was recorded as “boatman”. John Forristal and Rose A. Lynn were married on 26 September 1897 at Newton, Mass. She was born in Cavan and was the daughter of Mathew Lynn and Mary Lynn née McMahon. The 1900 Census provides that the couple had one son, Arthur (b. July 1898). Rose was born in May 1872, and John was working as a coachman. The family was living on Henshaw Terrace. The 1930 Census records that the family were living on Auburn St. and John was 59 and working as a police officer. Children include Mary J, aged 29; Thomas M., aged 28; Joseph L, aged 22 and Francis J. aged 20. John immigrated in 1888 and Rose in 1884.]
[ The Boston Globe (Mon. 8 Aug. 1932, p. 3) “Friends Play Trick on Newton Policeman During Fishing Party.” Patrolman John J. Forristal of Auburn St., Auburndale, has supplied the reporters with numerous stories, many of them humorous. But this morning Clark Barkhouse, 25 Kenyon St., West Newton supplied one on Forristal.]
[Forristal, who is on his vacation, was fishing with several others on Barkhouses’s boat off Cohasset. After 3 hours of fruitless endeavour, John retired to the cabin for a rest, leaving his line tied to a stanchion. Half an hour later he resumed his fishing and after nearly an hour of fishing hauled in his line. Seven fish were on the hooks. Even when finally told someone had played a trick on him, John looked wisely at the catch. “I must have caught some of them anyway,” he remarked. He kept the fish.]
[Obituary—Services for John J. Foristall Wednesday—NEWTON, Oct. 1—Funeral services for John J. Foristall, retired Newton police officer who died at his home at 208 Auburn St., Auburndale, yesterday after a four days’ sickness, will be held at 9 o’clock Wednesday morning with a requiem mass at Corpus Christi Church, Auburndale. Burial will be in Calvary Cemetery, Waltham.]
[He had been a member of the Police Department for 30 years when he retired two years ago. He was a native of Ireland, coming to Newton as a young man. He joined the police force at the age of 30. Surviving are his wife, Mrs. Rose (Lynn) Foristall; a daughter, Mrs. Harry Ilfeld of West Newton, and four sons, John A., Joseph L. and Francis J. Foristall of Auburndale and Thomas M. Foristall of New York (John J. Foristal, The Boston Globe, 2 Oct. 1934, p. 4).]
(6) Tom Forristal (1873-?)
Mikey’s brother Tom Forristal was a twin. He went off to England. When he was at Ringville School he was a “great scholar” and taught at Ringville for 3 years without pay. The teacher, Joe Grennan, a small sized man, and fairly old, spoke to Mikey’s father about Tom going on. “My father had 8 of us to keep up and my brother could not stay.” Tom worked on the railway, then went off to England and worked in Liverpool on the docks. He worked the docks during WWII.
(7) Martin Forristal (1873-1955)
Mikey’s brother Martin Forristal is Willie and Johnny Forristal’s father. Martin was a twin.
[Martin Forestal (sic) (b. 8 Aug. 1873-1955) Nurse Ryan registered the birth of the twins on the 28th of August and noted that they were born at 12 midnight on the 8th.]
(8) Mikey Forristal (1879-1972)
Mikey stated that he was the youngest boy. He also spoke about his occupation of fishing.
[Michael Forrestal (20 April 1879-14 June 1972) on 29 August 1911, married Margaret Jennings at St. John the Evangelist of Waterford. The groom was from Glenmore and the bride was from John’s Hill, Waterford. Her father was Myles Jennings (bottler) and his father was John Forristal (labourer) deceased.
Margaret Mary Jennings was born on 16 October 1882 on Tucket St. in Castlebar, Co. Mayo. Her father Myles Jennings was a Mineral Water Manufacturer and her mother is listed as Clare Mary McEvilly. A note on the birth record states “on marriage no. 98501 (Myles) wife’s name is Clare Ann. Her father (David) is a lemonade manufacturer. Myles Jennings (shopkeeper) of Westport married Clare Anne on 4 March 1875. His father’s name is not listed except noted farmer.]
[The death register provides that Mikey died on 14th of June 1972, at the age of 93. He died at his daughter Alice Murphy’s home in Ballybrahee, Glenmore.]
[Mikey’s obituary appeared in the Irish Independent (Thur. 15 June 1972, p. 29) Forristal (Rochestown, Glenmore, Co. Kilkenny)—June 14, 1972, at his daughter’s residence (Ballybrahee, Glenmore), Michael Forristal; deeply regretted by his sorrowing sons, daughters, nephews, nieces, relatives and friends. RIP Remains will be removed at 7:30 o’c, this (Thursday) evening to Glenmore Church. Requiem Mass at10:30 o’c to-morrow (Friday). Burial immediately afterwards in adjoining cemetery.]
Mikey also spoke about Nicky Forristal being married in Carlow and was a full back for the hurler’s here. However, it isn’t clear whether Nicky was his brother or nephew.
The Landlords
Mikey related that Old Conn was their landlord. Conn was a Captain first. He came from Passage East. Strange was another landlord and lived where James Kelly is now. Edmond Forristal was a big landlord too with hundreds of acres. Edmond Forristal married Strange’s sister or daughter. Could not knock the walls of the castle with dynamite. [The remains of the old Rochestown Castle was near John Aylward, of Rochestown yard.] The landlord’s house was 20 yards up from the Aylward house. The Aylward house is built where the landlords stable was. Conn bought land from Strange.
Conn built his own house; Mount Ida. Mikey knew Conn. He described Conn as a big stout man. Conn always had the gards annoyed “coming around.” Paddy Stapleton’s father was a sergeant in Glenmore. Mikey never knew Conn’s wife. Conn had two sons. The Old people talked about the mother. “Conn was under repute.” The man who got the estate was Dr. Phillips, of the English Army. Mikey thought that Dr. Phillips was a first cousin to old Conn. His other first cousin was a man named Costy (Costello) who lived near Borris in Co. Carlow.
[For further details concerning Mount Ida and the bigamist landlord John Lambly Conn (1812-1893) see Martin Forristal’s article “Mount Ida”.]
Mikey’s uncle, also called Mikey Forristal, worked as a coachman for Conn. Mikey’s brother Martin worked for Dr. Phillips as a coachman. Dr. Phillips was living in Reading and used to come over 6 weeks before the family. He wouldn’t leave the house one night. Mikey and his brother Martin had to stay with him. Phillips had two girls and a boy, Tom. One of the girls married a minister the other one never married.
John Forristal’s (c. 1833-1895) Brothers
Danny asked Mikey about his father’s brothers. Mikey related that his father’s mother was a Doherty from Ballyrobin, Ferrybank and gave Danny the names of his three paternal uncles.
[The parish records provide that Mikey’s grandparents, John Forristal and Alice (Ally) Doherty were married on 3 February 1829. Alicia Doherty was baptized at Aylwardstown on 9 August 1807 the daughter of John Doherty and Catherine Ryan.]
(1) John Forristal (c. 1833-1895) was Mikey’s father.
(2) Thomas Forristal [bapt. 7 Jan. 1838] went to Boston.
(3) Martin Forristal [bapt. 12 Nov. 1835] went to Boston.
(4) Mickey Forristal [bapt. 18 Nov. 1843] married Anty Grant and they had 2 sons. John Forristal was shopkeeping in New Ross with Hutchinson then went into the Christian brothers. The Christian Brothers would not let him home to see his mother. The other son was Martin Forristal who was killed in the creamery. Mickey (1843) worked as a coachman for Conn. [For information concerning the tragic death of Martin Forristal (1879-1931) see our post of 13 May 2020.]
[In addition to the four sons identified above we also located two daughters: Catherine Forristal (bapt. 6 Nov. 1833) and Mary Forristal (bapt. 9 Dec. 1840).]
Summer Fun Leads to Tragedy
Mikey told Danny that he and his brothers went to Ringville to school. Katie Grant née Denn sold most of her farm to Marty Carney. One field of about 3 acres near her house she sold to Richie Roche for £200. Katie Denn and her brother Andy were at school with Mikey. The local boys stopped the water and made a pool in the Curramore stream. The children went into the pool of water several times. Andy Denn was only 10 to 12 years old and caught cold and died.
[Andrew Denn, of Carriginurra, aged 11, died 28 August 1889 of tubercular meningitis. He was ill 18 days. His mother Mary Denn was with him when he died.]
Please send any corrections, information or photos to glenmore.history@gmail.com. It is hoped that someone might share a photo of Mickey Forristal and his family.
Special thanks to Martin Gahan, of Ballinamona for correcting information concerning his father Martin Gahan (1905-1986) [updated 7 May 2024] and providing the photo of his grandparents Tom and Eliz. Gahan née Forristal and his paternal aunts and uncles.
We had a request for a simple family tree.
Dr. Kathleen Moore Walsh
Keeping the Old May Day Tradition
The month of April is quickly coming to an end, and Wednesday is May Day. Decorating a May Bush is an old tradition that our founder Danny Dowling (1927-2021) enjoyed. For a few years he acted as the judge of a May Bush competition in New Ross.
It is a simple process and children particularly enjoy it. If you carry on the tradition, wherever you are in the world, please send a photo. Please see some of our previous posts if you need a little inspiration….1 May 2022 and 22 April 2021. The photos below are from 2023.
Happy May Day!
“For the Love of a Glenmore Girl” (1903)
While recently transcribing one of Danny Dowling’s (1927-2021) notebooks we came across several poems or verses recorded by Danny. Danny noted the editions and dates where the verses were published in The Nightingale. After a search we located a reference to The Nightingale in the National Library of Ireland’s Catalogue. It is described as a “weekly broadside of news, verse, etc.” published by Kellystown, Co. Wexford, and printed by J.J. Evoy. The National Library only holds one edition of The Nightingale, and this does not feature in Danny’s Notebook. We believe Danny must have read The Nightingale in the New Ross or Wexford libraries.
From the verses Danny recorded, it appears that at the turn of the twentieth century young men entertained themselves by making fun of their friends or foes. In the verses Danny recorded, the common theme is that young men were making fools of themselves over a girl seldom identified by name. The most prominent of the verses Danny recorded is “The Love of a Glenmore Girl,” appearing in the 24 October 1903 edition of The Nightingale (Vol. 34, No. 15). Danny noted the price of the publication was ½ d. (half a penny) and he found the verse in the “Co. Kilkenny Notes” section of the publication.
It is not known how long The Nightingale was published, but before radio or television it must have been something young people looked forward to reading each week.
“The Love of a Glenmore Girl” is below followed by the possible identification of persons named in the verse. Rather than recite other verses that Danny recorded from The Nightingale we have an extract where another Glenmore suitor was mentioned.
“The Love of a Glenmore Girl” (1903)
Come on now Mr. Editor,
I’m going to make a start,
I’m looking at a couple here,
Which nearly broke my heart.
Around the windows in the shed,
Each night I see them stray,
And one of them his Sunday trousers,
He’s wearing every day.
His name it tis D. B—n,
He came here from the Rower,
And I need not tell the dolly’s name,
It is well known before.
She said she loved him deeply,
And letters to him wrote,
And where they met to stand the set,
Was at the Ferryport.
But when he saw the sight of her,
His heart it leaped with joy,
But alas she did him pass along,
With a John Hill’s boy.
Poor Dick lamented sorely,
The day that he went there,
He raised his hands where he did stand,
And began to tear his hair.
I thought she loved him dearly,
But now I understand,
That everyday she does the Quay,
With Johnny—clap—hands.
Her name I’ll here not mention,
She is a charming maid,
A soaper in the laundry,
I think is her trade.
She’s known by every corner boy,
From John’s Street to the Square,
In Barrack Lane I heard them say,
Each night she travels there.
But now she’s home on furlough,
Theres others on her track,
D. Barron at the front door,
And T. Kelly at her back.
T. Kelly says he’ll gain her,
And Barron have no chance,
The other night I saw him kiss her,
At a threshing dance.
Each night he comes to see her,
And to the street he will jog,
And then he’s watching at the door,
Just like John Hearne’s dog.
So now Mr. Kelly I think its better you’d knock off,
And let D.B. go there and play ram-cat-faf.
And if you don’t o’r the railroad your car stick,
And then on Sunday you won’t have a penny in your fist.
Yours Truly, Dog Breath(?) Esq.
The Suitors
T. Kelly—In a notation on the page Danny wrote Graiguenakill. In the 1901 Census there was a Thomas Kelly (b.c. 1881) aged 20 years of age in Graiguenakill, Glenmore. Thomas Kelly in 1901 was working as a railway labourer. He lived with his widowed mother Catherine (aged 53) and his maternal uncle Michael Breen (aged 54). The railway was being built through Glenmore and Thomas Kelly probably came and went with the railway.
Dick Barron—in the 1901 census there were two Richard Barron’s in the Rower. The first candidate was a 19 year old farm labourer working for the 70 year-old widow, Bridget Carney at Ballyfolle Upper, the Rower, Kilkenny. The second candidate was an 18 year old son of John Barron (farmer aged 50) and his wife Ellen aged 45 of Kiltown, the Rower. The second candidate was still living at home in Kiltown in the 1911 census. The birth register reveals that candidate 2 was born on the 28th of February 1883.
John Hearne—The 1901 Census does not reflect a John Hearne in Glenmore. There are over a dozen John Hearne’s in Waterford including a 20 year old carpenter living on Barrack St. His father was a publican. In New Ross there were ten John Hearne’s in the 1901 census. It is unclear from the census who owned a dog that watched doors.
Excerpt from “The Big Blow-up in Newtown(?) Co. Kilkenny”
There’s another boy he’s a courtin stray,
His name I will give down,
His name it is Jack Heffernan,
And lives in Aylwardstown.
He was courting one Miss Orchard,
And that without a doubt,
Until by Richard Dehy,
He was finally done out.
The Aylwardstown, Glenmore Suitor
John Heffernan (1881-1951) was the eldest child of Michael Heffernan and his wife Bridget Heffernan née Kennedy (c. 1853-1947). According to the 1901 Census, John was 20 years old and was one of 11 children. According to a diary kept by James Aylward of Ballyhobuck, Glenmore (and recorded by Danny Dowling) John Heffernan of Aylwardstown married Mary Freney (c. 1880-1913) of Fahee, Kilmacow on 24 July 1907. “They sailed for America July 31st 1907.” Tragically, Mary died on 18 June 1913, aged 30 of T.B. See our H Surname Page for further information on the large Heffernan family.
For further information concerning the killing of Mary Heffernan née Freney’s father at Christmastime 1884, see our post of 12 December 2021.
For additional local verses see, Dick Claridge’s collection.
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Please send any and all corrections or additional information or local verses to glenmore.history@gmail.com.
The featured drawing is courtesy of The Miriam and Ira D. Wallach Division of Art, Prints and Photographs: Print Collection, The New York Public Library. “The two suitors” The New York Public Library Digital Collections. 1913. https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/9410fddb-04ac-cc65-e040-e00a180623c3
Dr. Kathleen Moore Walsh
Glenmore in the News: March 1924
Today, we feature articles about the Glenmore senior football team, the Glenmore junior hurling team, a marriage and local deaths, as well as an eclectic mix of articles that appeared in local newspapers in March 1924 and were undoubtedly discussed one hundred years ago. By all accounts the weather from January to March 1923 was poor and was blamed for the continuing spread of flu as well as poor fishing and farming prospects.
St. Patrick’s Day Shamrocks Seized
“Upon the arrival of the Saxonia in dock the New York Customs Authorities confiscated six little pots, especially brought from Ireland by Father Robinson of Wicklow, containing growing shamrock for wear on St. Patrick’s Day. The attitude of the authorities was most sympathetic, but they explained that they were compelled to seize the shamrock by virtue of a stringiest law forbidding the importation of vegetation with roots,” (New Ross Standard, Fri. 21 March 1924, p 2).
Fishing
Whether due to weather conditions or otherwise, the reported catches of salmon in the Barrow are not at all up to the average of previous years ((New Ross Standard, Fri.7 March 1924, p. 8).
W. Fleming, J. Gehegan, D. Kennedy and W. Carroll, four Ballindine cot fishermen, caught a salmon weighing 50 lbs. the other night. The salmon was brought from them by Mr. P. Bourke, Lough Street, Carrick-in-Suir (Waterford News & Star, Fri. 7 March 1924, p. 8).
A 42 pound salmon was caught in the Barrow near New Ross and another weighing 35 pounds was caught during the week. The fishing season was still poor. The price of salmon was 2s 3d per pound (New Ross Standard, Fri. 28 March 1924, p. 5).
Farm Prices
There was a scarcity of butter thought to be due to the weather conditions (New Ross Standard, Fri. 7 March 1924, p. 8).
Potatoes were scarce. The retail price in New Ross during the last week of March was up to 1s., 2d, per stone. At New Ross pig market on Monday fat pigs sold at 48s. to 53 s. per cwt., live weight (New Ross Standard, Fri. 28 March 1924, p. 5)..
Message in a Bottle
At Cove, near Passage East, a young girl named Mason found a bottle on the strand. In the bottle was a message written by one of the men who “went to their last resting place amidst the din of war, when the now famous Formby, with her sister ship the Coningbeg, was set to the bottom of the sea by a German torpedo.”
The ships sank in December 1917. The message in the bottle was written on a plain piece of white paper but had become almost undecipherable from the elements. “As far as the closest and most careful scrutiny of the message can show, the words written by the hand of a man in a moment of supreme crisis are as follows:
‘Oh, God have mercy on me, from Jack (or Jock) Burns…sinking now. …to Waterford…It is too bad. She never rounded…’ Here the message ends. The blanks in the sentences have evidently been caused by the action of time and water, or both, or mayhap in the excitement and stress of the sailor’s last moments his confusion of mind may have been responsible for the want of coherency in this the last message he could indite, and which he sealed in a bottle and cast to the care of the waves, with the hope of its ultimately reaching those who love and cherished him…” (Waterford News & Star, Fri. 7 March 1924, p. 8).
For further information on the sinking of the two ships see, Andrew Doherty’s, Tides and Tales article of 16 December 2016, “Remembering the S.S. Formby and S.S. Coningbeg.” For further information of the impact of the message in the bottle see, Waterford Treasures.
Flooding and Flu
Owing to the prevalence of the flu epidemic the Thomastown National Schools were closed for the first two weeks of March. There was much illness in both adults and children in January and February in the parish due to the flooding (The Kilkenny People, Sat. 22 March, 1924, p. 7).
Ford Motor Cars
Early in March an editorial in the Munster Express made a couple of predictions. “With the reduction in price in the Ford car, we may expect to hear soon that every farmer has got a car, and that the milk now carried by the horse or ass is whirled to the creamery by motor. A close shave will then be the order of the day and the humble pedestrian (who has to rely upon shanks’ mare) had better prepare to walk the fences” (Munster Express, Sat.1 March 1924, p. 6).
A week later, on Saturday the 8th of March, on Waterford’s market day, a “magnificent display of Ford cars” was provided by Mr. T.J. Sheridan, motor proprietor, The Quay. Shortly before one a fleet of cars, comprising the touring and commercial vehicle type, left the garage premises at the Quay, and headed by the famous Fordson tractors, were driven by the firm’s employees, through the streets of Waterford. The vehicles were heralded by the loud sounding “of the hooters” The parade was witnessed and admired by a large number of citizens and country folk. “It is yet another remarkable and practical demonstration of the progressive stride that have been made of late by this particular firm” (Waterford News & Star, Fri. 14 March 1924, p. 3).
1924 Spring Cleaning Advice
Although it was stated that mid-March was too early to think about sweeps, carpet-beating and paint cleaning housewives were told that there was much they could do to minimise the discomfort of spring cleaning. “For instance they can concentrate on timber rooms, chests, and cupboards in those parts where coal fires are not.” These items can be dusted, re-papered and re-arranged. “Mattresses too are best overhauled early in the season as when remaking is in question they are likely to be more quickly returned than later when upholstering departments are rushed with work. Bolsters and pillows no longer fresh can be given new cases, the feathers being well picked over and the necessary new ones added.” On dry days all mattresses and pillows should be given a sun bath, and as extra blankets can be dispensed with they should be cleaned or washed, ready for next winter’s use” (Waterford News & Star, Fri. 14 March 1924, p. 7).
Kilivory Cemetery of Glenmore
The No. 2 (Co. Kilkenny) District Council met in the Council’s Offices, John’s Hill, Waterford. J. Donovan, D.C. wrote to the Council that he had visited the Kilmakevogure Graveyard (also known as Kilivory) “and found the state of affairs there worse than he anticipated. All round the graveyard there was evidence of trespass by goats. The bark was pulled off the strubs, and he saw the clay on graves scooped out as if by fowl. He saw a number of trees, the barks of which had been deliberately hacked away. There was now only one uninjured tree in the graveyard.”
A committee was appointed to visit the graveyard and report. The committee was comprised of Messrs. Donvan, Ennett, Cororan and J. Flanagan engineer (Munster Express, Sat. 1 March 1924, p. 3).
Wedding & Deaths
Glenmore Wedding
The wedding of Mr. Richard Doherty, Coolnaleen, to Miss Fitzgerald of Knockbrack was announced in the Munster Express. (Sat. 1 March 1924, p. 5).
According to the Glenmore Parish Records Richard Doherty of Coolnaleen, Glenmore married Bridget Fitzgerald of Knockbrack, Glenmore on the 27th of February 1924. Richard was the son of James Doherty (farmer) and Bridget was the daughter of Paul Fitzgerald (farmer). The couple were married by Fr. Patrick Freyne and the witnesses were John Doherty and Ellie Fitzgerald. For further information on the Doherty’s see our D family surname page. For further information on the Fitzgerald’s see our F family surname page.
Reported Deaths
Death of Hon. Granville Ponsonby (c. 1846-1924)
The same newspaper reported the death of the Hon. Granville Ponsonby (c. 1846-1924). He died in London, aged 78. He was the third son of the 7th Earl of Bessborough, and uncle of the then present peer. He was formerly Chief of Police in St. Lucia (Munster Express, Sat. 1 March 1924, p. 5). The Earl of Bessborough was one of the landlords of Glenmore.
Death of Miss May Walsh (c. 1911-1924) of Mullinavat
The 13 year old daughter of Ellen Walsh, née Mullins died in March 1924 at Mullinavat. Ellen Walsh née Mullins was a native of Flemingstown, Glenmore and the daughter of John Mullins. Miss May Walsh (c. 1911-1924) tragically died of T.B. after being ill for 3 months (Munster Express, Sat. 15 March 1924, p. 5 and death register).
Police Blotter
James Walsh, of Rochestown, Glenmore was prosecuted in the Waterford court for having on the 23rd of February 1923 unlawfully assault, beat, and inflicted a dangerous wound on Kate Ryan or Lady Lane, Waterford. The case was adjourned by Supt. Halligan because a number of Kate Ryan’s family had died and “all the parties were that day attending the funeral.” A cross summons was made by the defendant James Walsh against John Ryan (Munster Express, Sat. 1 March 1924, p. 4).
Patrick Scanlan was charged in the special court in Waterford for having on the 24th of October 1922, “at Slieveue, with others, armed with firearms, feloniously breaking and entered the premises of Mr. Michael Rockett, and did there and then rob a quantity of groceries etc, and the sum of £2 in cash” (Munster Express, Sat. 22 March 1924, p. 5).
Glenmore Sports
Glenmore Junior Hurling
On the last Sunday in February Glenmore played Ballyhale at Clogga in the semi-final of the Southern Division of the junior hurling championship. “The attendance was rather on the small side, due probably to the coldness of the day ad the rumours that had gained currency in the surrounding district that the fixture had been postponed.” In the preliminary rounds both teams had “good displays” and it was expected that Sunday would have been a good game.
Ballyhale lacked the services of their most prominent players, while Glenmore was at full strength. “The game was fairly evenly contested, and towards the end interest was livened p considerably when Ballyhale came along with a great dash and tried their utmost to draw level, and live to fight another day. However, the Glenmore defence held out, and the balance of five points which separated the teams one time about represents the run of play.”
“The backs on both teams gave a good display, but both sets of forwards missed many likely chances. For the winners Hanrahan (goal), Phelan, Rockett, Heffernan and Williams played well. While for Ballyhale, MacBride (goal), Dalton, Fitzgerald, Darmody, and Phelan were about the pick.”
Final Score
Glenmore—2 goals, 3 points
Ballyhale—1 goal, 2 points
The Teams
Glenmore—J. Murphy; P. Murphy; J. Fitzgerald; M. Coady; P. Coady; R. Duggan; P. Mullins; S. Heffernan; J. Hanrahan; J. Phelan; T. O’Neill; T. Williams; R. Rockett; J. Quinn; L. Phelan.
Ballyhale—J. McBride; J. Phelan; J. Fitzpatrick; G. Darmody; T. Dalton; W. Ryan; J. MacNamara; T. MacNamara; M. Kearns; R. Kennealy; T. Fitzgerald; W. Dalton; W. Sullivan; J. Roche; J. Phelan (Munster Express, Sat. 1 March 1924, p. 5).
Glenmore Appeal
The Glenmore junior hurling club appealed against the decision of the Southern Board in awarding the semi-final championship tie to Ballyhale. The matter was to be dealt with at the April meeting of the Kilkenny County Committee G.A.A. Also to be discussed was the continued ban on foreign games (Munster Express, Sat. 29 March 1924, p. 5).
Glenmore Senior Football
The finals of the 1923 senior championships in hurling and football were played at St. James Park, Kilkenny on Sunday the 23rd before a large crowd. Although it was wet in the morning there was no rain during the games. The pitch was in “splendid condition” (Munster Express, Sat. 29 March 1924, p. 4).
The football final was between Glenmore and Cloneen. “The boys from the Big Glen by their display, left no doubt in the minds of anybody present as to who’s who in football in Co, Kilkenny. The game was a disappointing one, however, as the Glenmore men had matters all their own way after the first ten minutes, and with the exception of two runs, the Cloneen men were hemmed in their own territory for practically the hour.”
The Scores
“For the winners the scores were: Connolly (3 goals); Fitzgerald, 5 points; Hanrahan, 1 point; Mullins, 1 point. At the long whistle, Glenmore were declared the winners on the score of 3 goals, 7 points to 2 points. Mr. R. Walsh, Chairman Kilkenny Co. Board, G.A.A., carried on the duties of referee in a creditable manner” (Munster Express, Sat. 29 March 1924, p. 4).
The Glenmore Team
Elsewhere in the paper the score was reported as 3 goals. 6 points to 2 points. “Glenmore, the southern opponents were undefeated in the Kilkenny Senior football championship since 1915, and to judge from their display on Sunday last they are likely to hold the honour for some time yet.” The Glenmore team was comprised of: A. Heffernan (goal); M. Cody (Captain); P. Cody; M. Cody; S. Heffernan; J. Doherty; P. Murphy P. Fitzgerald; J. Phelan; W. Irish, J. Hanrahan, J. Mullins, W. Hartley, P. Hartley and M. Connolly (Munster Express, Sat. 29 March 1924, p. 5).
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Please send any corrections or additional information to glenmore.history@gmail.com.
The cigarette card featuring shamrocks above is courtesy of George Arents Collection, The New York Public Library. “Do you know which is the true shamrock?” New York Public Library Digital Collections. Accessed April 14, 2024. https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/510d47e2-1de3-a3d9-e040-e00a18064a99.
Dr. Kathleen Moore Walsh
Glenmore Natives in San Francisco
On the 16th of December 1969, Danny Dowling (1927-2021) interviewed Nicky the Miller Forristal (1888-1979) regarding Nicky’s father’s siblings. In this interview Nicky identified four Glenmore natives that emigrated to San Francisco. Three remained in San Francisco and one returned to Glenmore (DD Notebook 2). Today we are featuring Jack Raftis (1862-?); Laurence Forristal (1863-1906); Bridget Forristal née Dowling (1860-1929); and John Forristal (1865-c. 1915). See our previous post of 14 January 2024 for other Glenmore natives who emigrated to San Francisco.
Jack Raftis (1862- before 1925) of Rochestown, Glenmore
Jack Raftis was the son of Robin Raftis (c. 1826 -1908) & Bridget Raftis née Mullally (c. 1827-1881) of Davidstown, Glenmore. Robert “Robin” Raftiss (sic) married Bridget Mullally of Davidstown, Glenmore, on 4 February 1856. Robin was a native of Burkstown, Mullinavat. The couple reared six known children in Davidstown including: (1) Patrick Raftiss (sic) (b. 1857; (2) Richard Raftis (b. 1860); (3) John “Jack” Raftis (b. 1862); (3) William Raftis (b. 1864); (4) Mary Raftis (b. 1865); (5) Bridget Raftis (b.1868); and (6) Margaret Raftis (b. 1870).
According to Nicky the Miller Forristal, Jack Raftis as a young man went out to San Francisco and worked with Nicky’s uncles Larry Forristal and John Forristal.
The San Francisco Years
Jack Raftis went to San Franciso and worked with Larry and John Forristal on the docks. “He was not able to stick it.” Jack then took a job working for a farmer who lived 3 or 4 days by horseback from San Francisco. There were only a few roads and they were really only rough tracks. Jack’s day started at 4 a.m. and he worked till 10 p.m. He worked a four horse team pulling a double sodded plough. The fields he ploughed were 5 or 6 miles long (DD Notebook 2).
If Jack showed up five minutes late for breakfast at 4 a.m. he would be abused by the farmer. He spent 4 or 5 years with this farmer and saved his money which was £60 per year. Jack found it easy to save his wages as he had no way to spend them. There was no Mass to attend nor could he meet friends. Jack was only able to get into San Francisco about once a year. He came home in the 1890’s with about £300 (DD Notebook 2).
Nicky described Jack Raftis as a big, able man. His brother Pat was called Pod and farmed the home farm in Davidstown (DD Notebook 2).
Return to Glenmore
After Jack returned to Glenmore he married Catherine “Kate” Gahan (1859 -1925) of Rochestown on 27 February 1900. The bride’s father was Joseph Gahan (c. 1814-1896) of Rochestown.
Jack and Kate farmed the Gahan farm in Rochestown. Kate was known for her temper and was also known for placing curses on neighbours who annoyed her. Kate is also locally remembered for how she handled her husband Jack’s death. Jack died before 1925 in their home in Rochestown. Jack’s brother Pod (Patrick) came down from Davidstown to cut the corn. Kate never told her brother-in-law that his brother was dead in the house. Pod worked that day within sight of the house where his brother laid dead and only learned of his brother’s death later.
Laurence Forristal (1863-1906) & Bridget Forristal née Dowling (1860-1929)
Nicky the Miller Forristal’s uncle, Laurence “Larry” Forristal married Danny Dowling’s great-aunt, Bridget Dowling of Jamestown, Glenmore. Nicky described his Uncle Larry as a big man and he emigrated to the USA right after getting married.
Laurence Forrestal married Bridget Dooling of Jamestown on 7 June 1883 at Glenmore. Laurence was the son of Patrick Forrestal (farmer)(Ballyverneen) and Bridget was the daughter of Patrick Dooling (farmer). Laurence was baptised 30 Oct. 1863 at Ballyverneen son of Patrick Foristal and Ellen Kennedy. Bridget Dowling was born 6 January 1860 at Jamestown the daughter of Patrick Dowling and Biddy Neddy Coady. For further information on the Widow Dowling (Biddy Neddy Coady (1831-1916)) see our post of 7 November 2021.
1900 in San Francisco
No records could be located indicating how the Glenmore newlyweds journeyed to San Francisco. The first US Census that survives containing the newlyweds is the 1900 Census. This Census provides that Larry and Bridget were living at 25 Bryant St., in San Francisco. Both reported their ages as 35 although we know from the Glenmore baptismal records that Bridget was 3 years older than her husband. Larry reported that he was born in December 1864 and Bridget was born in October 1864. The couple had 13 children but only 6 were alive in 1900. They were married 19 years, and they had been in the US 19 years. Larry worked as a Long Ironworker.
Their six surviving children were: (1) William Forristal (b.c. 1882); (2) Mabel Forristal (b.c. 1883); (3) Edward Forristal (b.c. 1888); (4) Laurence Forristal (b.c.1889); (5) Patrick Forristal (b.c. 1894); and (6) Catherine Forristal (b.c. 1896).
Larry’s brother, John Forristal (1865-c. 1915) was the youngest of the Ballyverneen Forristal family. Nicky the Miller Forristal described his Uncle John as a big man. John attended St. Kieran’s College in Kilkenny City. “His father was thinking of making a priest out of him.” John instead emigrated to San Francisco and joined his brother Larry working on the docks (DD Notebook 2).
John Forristal in the 1900 Census was aged 34. He reported that he was born in August 1865, and lived as a boarder on Howard St. He emigrated to the US 13 years earlier and was naturalized. John worked as a longshoreman and in the previous year he was out of work for 6 months.
John Forristal never married and died in San Francisco when he was 50 or 60 years of age according to his nephew Nicky the Miller Forristal. We were not able to find a death record or obituary for John in San Francisco.
San Francisco 1906
The 1903 City Directory lists John Forristal residing at 48 Federal St., and Lawrence (sic) and his family living at 47 Federal St. In 1905 young Patrick Forristal was 13 and employed with other boys to clean a boiler on a steamship in the harbour. The boiler exploded and Patrick was injured, but managed to drag one friend to safety. An inquiry ensued regarding why young boys were exposed to such dangers and the newspaper noted that the employer said that Patrick was big for his age (The San Francisco Examiner, 10 Dec.1905 p. 1). We know from the 1940 Census that Patrick left school to go to work when he was about ten years of age.
Lawrence Forristal died in March 1906, a little over a month before the earthquake that destroyed the city. He was aged 43 years and six months old. He was survived by his wife Bridget and his six children: Edward; Lawrence; William; Patrick; Katie and Mabel. His death notice stated that he was a native of County Kilkenny and was a member of the Riggers and Stevedores’ Union (The San Francisco Examiner, Mon. 12 Mar. 1906, p. 6). Larry was buried in Holy Cross Cemetery and his grave has no marker.
The Kilkenny People (Sat. 28 April 1906, p. 5) noted that over 100 people from Thomastown were residents of San Francisco when the earthquake struck. Many Thomastown families anxiously awaited news after the earthquake. Rev. Thomas Comerford, sent a cable to his brother Edward Comerford stating “all well here..”
Given that Patrick Forristal was working at age 10 it appears that the family finances were difficult even before Larry’s death. Undoubtedly even with the help of John Forristal, the Widow Forristal struggled after her husband’s death. The 1909 City Directory lists Bridget as a widow living at 553 Texas St., Edward and Laurence lived at home and were working as stevedores. Her brother-in-law John was residing at 311 Main St. However, by 1920 Bridget owned her home on Texas St. Unfortunately prior to her death in 1929 she buried her son Laurence in 1925 and watched her son Edward’s marriage fall apart after Laurence’s death.
The San Francisco Forristal Children
(1) William Forristal (b.c. 1882).
Very few records could be found regarding William. We were able to locate records that William was employed in the US Panama Zone from 1910 to 1912. William Forristal entered duty on 22 April 1910 in the US Panama Zone. He worked in the Engineering Department earning $83 per month as a steamship fireman. He was discharged on 3 June 1912.
The 1921 City Directory lists William as living at home at 534 Texas St. and employed as a steamship fireman.
(2) Mabel Forristal (1897-1963) (Sr. Mary of the Angels)
In the 1920 Census was aged 22 and working as a stenographer for a hardware company. The 1921 City Directory provides that she was living with her mother at 534 Texas and was employed as a bookkeeper. Sometime before 1925 Mabel entered the Poor Clare’s Order and became Sister Mary of the Angels. In the 1930 Census, of Oakland Calif., Mabel was residing in St. Joseph’s Monastery of Poor Clare’s, on 34th Ave. Per the California Death Index (1940-1997) Mabel Forrestal was born on 6 July 1897 and died 11 Dec. 1963 at Santa Clara, California. Her mother’s maiden name was Dowling
(3) Edward Francis Forristal (b. 1886)
Edward Forristal married Mary Roche in 1917 (San Francisco Examiner, Thurs 27 Sept. 1917, p. 4). When Edward registered for the WW1 Draft he gave his address as 3454 17th St., San Francisco. He listed his birthdate as 16 Nov. 1886, and his next of kin was his wife, Mary Forristal. He was aged 32, worked as a Rigger and Stevedore, but he did not provide the name of any employer. In late 1925 Mary filed for divorce (The Recorder, 14 Nov. 1925, p. 6). It is not known if the couple had any children.
(4) Laurence Forristal (c.1889-1925)
In the 1920 Census, Laurence was single, living with his mother at 534 Texas and working as a fireman on a steamship. Very little is known about Laurence other than he died at the age of 37. His obituary provides few details concerning his life or death.
The San Francisco Examiner, Thurs. 24 Sept. 1925—In this city, Sept. 22, 1925, Laurence beloved son of Bridget Forristal, loving brother of Edward, William and Patrick Forristal, Mrs. D.W. Allman and Sister Mary of the Angels, Poor Clara’s Convent, a native of San Francisco, aged 37 years.
Friends and acquaintances are respectfully invited to attend the funeral Thursday, Sept. 24 at 9:30 a.m. from the funeral parlors of Ryan and Carroll, 435 Valencia St. thence to St. Teresa’s Church, where a requiem high mass will be celebrated for the repose of his soul, commencing at 10 a.m. Interment, Holy Cross Cemetery.
(5) Patrick Joseph Forristal (1892-1944)
In the 1920 Census Patrick was living with his mother at 534 Texas, was single, and working as a fireman on a steamship. His WWI Draft Registration Card provides his date of birth as September 9, 1892. He was employed as a Rigger and Stevedore. He claimed an exemption as he supported his mother. Patrick was single of medium build, medium height, brown hair and brown eyes. Patrick served in the military.
In an application for Seaman’s Protection Certificate, PJ Forristal, discharged from the US Army, aged 26 on 3/17/1919 was 5 feet 11 inches tall, and served aboard the American vessel Kinta. He was described as having a ruddy complexion with brown hair and brown eyes. He had a tattoo on his right arm.
In the 1940 Census Patrick reported that he left school after the 5th grade. He would have been about 10 years of age. Patrick’s WWII Draft Registration Card provides that he was aged 50 and residing at 27 Clay St, San Francisco. He gave his date of birth as 17 March 1892, and stated he worked as a longshoreman for Waterfront Employers. His next of kin was his nephew, Paul Allsman, of 2244 Kirkham St., San Francisco.
The California Death Index provides that Patrick Forristal (17 March 1892-17 May 1944) died in San Francisco. His mother’s maiden name was Dowling. Patrick’s obituary was short. The San Francisco Examiner (Tue. 23 May 1944, p. 15)—Forrestal —in this city, May 17, 1944, Patrick J., beloved son of the late Bridget Forrestal, loving brother of Sister Mary of the Angels and Katherine Hagan, uncle of Paul Allsmen; a native of San Francisco, a member of I.L.W. U., Local 110. Friends are invited to attend the funeral Wednesday. Time announcement later from Duggans; 3434 17th St.
(6) Catherine Elizabeth Allsman Hagan née Forristal (1895-1975)
On 14 October 1914 Catherine married Daniel Webster Allsman (1884-1937) a native of Missouri. Their only child, Paul Edward Allsman (1916-1994) was born 10 June 1916 at San Francisco. Daniel Webster Allsman died 19 June 1937 leaving Catherine a widow at the age of 42. Catherine on 30 January 1941 married Willam “Bill” Hagan who died 8 October 1951 in Capitola, Santa Cruz, California (Santa Cruz Sentinel, Wed. 5 Feb.1941, p. 3).
A year after her first husband died Catherine travelled to Ireland with her son. They passed through Ellis Island on 24 July 1938. Catherine recorded that she was 42 and a widow. Her address was 2244 Kirkham, San Francisco. Her son Paul Edward Allsman travelled with her. Paul’s WWII Draft Registration Card indicates that he was a student at the University of San Francisco.
It is not known if Catherine and Paul while in Ireland in 1938 visited their kin in Glenmore.
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Please send any corrections or additional information to glenmore.history@gmail.com.
The featured photo is courtesy of the Irma and Paul Milstein Division of United States History, Local History and Genealogy, The New York Public Library. (1862 – 1963). San Francisco from the bay Retrieved from https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/5e66b3e8-b0eb-d471-e040-e00a180654d7
Dr. Katheen Moore Walsh
A Glenmore Dispute: The Location of Leacht Ui Deaghaidh
Today, as our sixth excerpt from Carrigan’s, The History and Antiquities of the Diocese of Ossory,( v. 4 p. 97-100 (1906)) we feature Canon Carrigan’s coverage of his correction of acclaimed Irish scholar John O’Donovan. Carrigan’s correction of O’Donovan was based upon two interviews Carrigan conducted in 1900 of a Ballyrahan, Glenmore native Peter Grant (1811-1902). Although we could not find a headstone or obituary for Peter Grant, he is forever immortalised in Canon Carrigan’s work.
John O’Donovan (1806-1861)
In previous posts we covered various aspects of John O’Donovan’s early life. His mother was from Rochestown, now in the Parish of Glenmore. After his father’s death in 1817 John spent a substantial amount of time with his paternal uncle Patrick O’Donovan, of Donovan’s Mill, at Ballyrowragh, Slieverue on the border of what is now Glenmore Parish. O’Donovan is said to have started his education in a hedge school and then attended the Hunt Academy in Waterford City. His father, Edmund O’Donovan died in 1817, and a few years later at the age of 17 O’Donovan went to Dublin.
For further information regarding O’Donovan’s early life see our post of 9 Sept. 2023.
Schoolmaster O’Donovan
According to Carrigan, John O’Donovan started a school about 1822 “in his native district.” He gathered a number of pupils some were several years older than himself. “Of the alumni of this modest academy the last survivor was blind old Peter Grant, of Ballyrahan, Glenmore, whom the writer met on two occasions, in the year 1900, and spoke of his old master, ‘poor Johnnie Donovan,’ with the greatest admiration and affection.” (Carrigan, vol. 4, p. 356). If this and other information concerning when he moved to Dublin is correct, O’Donovan was a schoolmaster for about a year. Nothing has been found in any of Danny Dowling’s (1927-2021) transcribed notebooks concerning John O’Donovan being a schoolmaster in Slieverue or Glenmore.
Although a place was secured for O’Donovan to study at Maynooth he declined to go there because he did not wish to become a priest. O’Donovan’s first job was in the Public Service Office where he translated and transcribed ancient manuscripts (Munster Express, 10 Nov. 2006, p. 13). From 1830 to 1842 O’Donovan was employed on the first Ordinance Survey researching place names. He was sent into the field and travelled across Ireland. From around Ireland, O’Donovan sent letters to his boss containing descriptions of local lore, traditions and antiquities. These letters were placed in 103 volumes and became known as the “O’Donovan Letters.”
O’Donovan’s Incorrect Birthdate
Carrigan pointed out that O’Donovan incorrectly wrote that he was born in 1809 when he was actually born in 1806. In volume 4 Carrigan printed a copy of the Slieverue Parish Register proving that O’Donovan’s baptism occurred in 1806 (Carrigan, vol. 4 p. 356). Certainly, in that time before passports, driving licenses or even the State registered births and deaths many people provided incorrect ages or years of birth.
We all learn our age and birthdate from our parents. Prior to modern times little importance was attached to birthdates. Also, incorrect dates of birth for persons born in the early 19th century were probably due in large part to the fact that a sizable proportion of the population were unable to read or write. Penal laws were only fading when O’Donovan was a boy.
Notwithstanding Carrigan’s public comment that O’Donovan had utilized an incorrect year of birth, Carrigan failed to check the year of birth of Peter Grant, of Ballyrahan, Glenmore. Carrigan had access to the Parish Records, but did not find that Peter Grant was baptized on 30 June 1811. In 1900 Grant was not “over 90 years of age” as Carrigan claimed. Peter Grant was 88 or 89 when he was interviewed by Carrigan twice in 1900. Peter Grant (1811-1902) was the late Jimmy Reddy’s (c. 1926-2011) grandfather.
O’Donovan’s Letter of 30 Sept. 1841
Carrigan reprinted O’Donovan’s entire letter of 30 Sept. 1841 (Carrigan, vol. 4, p. 98-100). There were four sentences that appear to have caused Carrigan concern. After speaking with Peter Grant, Carrigan concluded that O’Donovan was wrong concerning the place where the Leacht Ui Deaghaidh was located.
“In the townland of Scartnamo about a half mile to the north of the Mill of Ballyrowragh and immediately to the left off the old road as you go from Waterford to New Ross, is shown the site of a monument called Leacht Ui Deaghaidh, i.e. the monument of O’Day, whom tradition calls the Ridire O’Day i.e. the Ritter or Knight O’Day. The site of his house is pointed out in a field on the other side of the road not far from the site of his leacht, but in a different townland, viz, in little Gaulestown…(O’Donovan’s Letter, 30 Sept. 1841)
Carrigan’s Location of O’Dea’s House and Leacht
“In the late Peter Grant’s Moon a’ Ridhizha (locally translated, the Baronite’s Bog), low down on the slope of Ballyrahan townland, and close to the old frowning rock of Corriganurra, is shown the site of “the Ridhizha O’Deaw’s house.” Who the Ridhizha O’Deaw, or O’Dea, is not quite clear. If we have to credit tradition, he was lord or owner of the whole Barony of Ida, and gave it the name of the Barony, viz., Ida, Eedeaw, or Ui-Deaghaidh, represents not the name of an individual after the adoption of surnames, but the name of the tribe that occupied it in much earlier times (Carriagan, p. 97).”
“The site of Ridhizha’s house was something more than half an acre in extent, and was covered over with foundations and low mounds, till it was levelled and tilled by the late owner, about 1840. It is now clothed with the greenest grass. The remainder of the field is low lying and boggy, and hence its name, Moon a Ridhizha. There was formerly a well here called Thubber-a-Ridhizha, or the ‘Baronite’s well.’”
“Leachth Ee Deaw, that is O’Dea’s monument bush, or ‘lone bush’ as they call it here, is on the roadside, opposite the Half -Way House in Aylwardstown, one mile and a half north of Moon-a-Rihizha. The bush was formerly surrounded by a little mound or earthen ring, which has been broken down by the trampling of cattle. Here rests ‘Brian O’Deaw,’ sometimes identified by tradition with the Ridhizha O’Deaw, who lived in Moon-a-Ridhizha. The Leachth field commands a view sublime in its extent and variety.”
“O’Donovan incorrectly placed Leachth Ee Deaw on the bounds of Scartnamore and Ballyrahan. There is, no doubt, a leachth, or lone bush on the spot he indicates, but it has never been known as Leachth Ee Deaw. It was planted there a great many years ago by a man named Kierevan, in memory of his deceased mother. The late Peter Grant, of Ballyrahan, when over 90 years of age, assured the present writer that this leachth was never called Leachth Ee Deaw; and that if it had any name at all it should be Leachth Ee Kierevawn or Kierevan’s Leachth, from the man who planted it, and was still living in his own early days.”
Peter Grant (1811-1902) of Ballybrahan, Glenmore
Peter Grant died the 10 August 1902 at Ballyrahan. He was a widower, a farmer, and aged 95, according to the death register. His daughter, Johanna Reddy, was present when he died.
Peter Grant was baptized 30 Jun 1811 at Ballinguile?, Glenmore, the son of John Grant and Bridget Aylward. Sponsors were William Grant and Mary Grant. His sister Anastatia Grant, baptized 10 June 1809, was born at Ballavrahen (sic), Glenmore and his sister Margaret Grant bapt.12 April 1807, the record reflects the address again as Ballinguile.
Peter Grant’s father is found in The Tithe Applotment Books (1829) for the townland of Ballyrahan. Plot 55 was comprised of 18 statute acres and John Grant was the tenant.
It is believed that Peter Grant (1811-1902) married Anne Grace of Glenpipe on 12 Sept 1846 at Rosbercon. Johanna Reddy (daughter of Peter Grant per the death register) married James Reddy on 24 Feb. 1881. Her address was recorded as Gaulestown. Their son John Reddy (1882-1961) married Margaret Hennessey (1886-1970) of the Rower. One of her sisters was the mother of May Roche (c. 1918-2001) of Scart, Glenmore. John and Margaret’s son, James Reddy (c. 1926-2011) married Kitty O’Hanlon of Newtown, Glenmore. Kitty died on 18 July 2021. The couple had no children.
Who Was Correct?
Generally, historians rely upon the earliest reliable written record, yet in this case both O’Donovan and Canon Carrigan were relying upon what they were told. O’Donovan was from the area and was an Irish speaker, and did not indicate where or when he obtained his information. Carrigan was not from the area and did not speak Irish. However, Carrigan found an elderly life-long resident who was about the same age as O’Donovan and provided what he had been told about the lone sceach. Relying on living boundaries or monuments is fraught with difficulties as trees fall are cut down etc. Loose stones are also easily moved or trampled by cattle.
It appears that O’Kelly (The Place Names of the County of Kilkenny Ireland (1969, p. 112)) agreed with or followed Carrigan’s view. It seems unlikely that we will ever know definitively who was correct, if either, but O’Donovan and Carrigan were agreed that the local tradition put an O’Dea house and monument in Glenmore.
For a brief outline of Canon Carrigan’s (1860-1924) early life and work see our post of 17 Sept. 2023
For a brief history of O’Donovan’s (1806-1861) early life see our post of 9 Sept. 2023 and our post of 13 March 2021.
Please send any corrections or further information to glenmore.history@gmail.com. The featured photo above is Donovan’s Mill taken in 2023.
Dr. Kathleen Moore Walsh