Glenmore, Co. Kilkenny, Ireland

Forristalstown Glenmore

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Thatched Houses in Glenmore at the End of WWII

Danny Dowling (1929-2021) made lists of various local things including: local Irish words, Mass Paths, elderly parish residents and thatched houses in Glenmore at the end of WWII. Thatch was the traditional roof in Glenmore prior to the twentieth century. The Second World War ended in 1945, and it appears that thatch roofs were then in the minority. Below is Danny’s list of the 35 houses identified and their respective townlands. The list is not dated. We note that several townlands are not included. The entire original list with notes from Danny is included. Any comments or additional houses that have been added are is square brackets [ ].

  1. Jack Forristal, of Cappagh (Bolger’s) [today Frankie Kirwan’s].
  2. Greene’s, of Jamestown
  3. Wattie Power, of Jamestown
  4. Anne Gaule, of Busherstown
  5. Johanna Closh Walsh, of Busherstown
  6. Main Gaule, of Busherstown
  7. Neddie Power, of Busherstown
  8. Anne Doherty, of Busherstown
  9. Doherty’s, of Milltown (part of)
  10. Haberlin’s, of Forristalstown
  11. Grace’s, of Forristalstown
  12. Jimmy Doherty’s, of Forristalstown
  13. Statia Butler, of Ballycroney
  14. Seamus Fitzgerald, of Ballycroney
  15. Dick Power, of Ballybrahee
  16. Dick Murphy, of Robinstown
  17. Pat Grant, of Robinstown
  18. Reddy’s, of Robinstown
  19. Neddie (Watts) Fitzgerald, of Ballinaraha
  20. Brophy’s, of Ballinaraha
  21. Moran’s, of Ballinlammy
  22. Doherty’s, of Ballinlammy
  23. Gahan’s, of Rochestown
  24. Shawn’s, of Rochestown [nickname for 1 of the Forristal families of Rochestown. We believe that this was the home of John Forristal (c. 1838-1915) and his wife Mary née Reddy (c.1851-1917). The couple were married at Glenmore on 31 Aug. 1880 and had five children; Bridget, James, John, Thomas and Patrick.]
  25. James “Browley” Walsh, of Rochestown
  26. Larry Walsh, of Rochestown
  27. Foran’s, of Kearney Bay
  28. James Phelan “The Walker”, of Ballyhobuck
  29. Larry Kirwan, of the Shanty [Scartnamore]
  30. John Kennedy, of Rathinure [Sean Óg where Johnny Garvey lives today]
  31. Pat Kennedy, of Rathinure [The Faddies]
  32. John Haberlin, of Aylwardstown
  33. Jim “Brien” Fitzgerald, of Aylwardstown
  34. Ryan’s, of Kearney Bay
  35. Pat Ryan, of Kearney Bay (Cousin of Mike Ryan, went to Ringville)

The following not on Danny’s original list
[37] [Johnny “Billy” Roche, of Rathinure] [Thatched house remained until 1972]
[38] [Holden’s, of Clune, Jamestown]
[39] [Paddy Kennedy, of Newtown]
[40] [John Power, of Newtown]
[41] [Martin Forristal, of Rochestown]
[42] [Paddy Mullally, of Ballyhobuck] [Later Walsh’s of Ballyhobuck]

Please send any corrections or additional information to glenmore.history@gmail.com

Dr. Kathleen Moore Walsh

An Old Anglo-Norman Glenmore Family: The Forrestalls

Today, our second installment of part of Chapter 4, Vol. 4 of Carrigan’s History & Antiquities of the Diocese of Ossory (1906) (p. 89-91) is presented below and features the four main branches of the Glenmore Forrestall families. The spelling of the surname varied as much a the spellings of Glenmore townlands and areas. Any editorial commentary has been placed in square brackets [ ].

The Forrestalls

 “The Forrestalls, an Anglo-Norman stock were landed  proprietors in Glenmore parish from an early date. They were divided into four main branches or families, one of which was seated at Forrestallstown; another at Kilbride; a third at Carrickcloney, and the fourth at Mullinahone. John Forstall M’Walter of Forristalstown, gent” had a pardon 5th June 1566. Walter and Gibbon Forstall, of the same place, gents, were pardoned, the former in 1571 and the latter in 1572. By Inquisition of 5 April 1658, it was found that Gibbon Forstall, late of Forstallstowne, was seised of Forstallstown, Ballymolgorme and Ballycroney; he died so seised thirty years before; and that his son and heir Walter Forstall, was at the time of full age and married.”

Forrestall’s Town

“By another inquisition of 12 October 1640, it was found that Walter Forstall, late of Forstall’s towne, was seised of the castle, town and lands of Forstall’s town, otherwise Ballynkenny, Ballymvegarran (Ballygurrin), Ballyheamocke, (now called Jamestown, still called in Irish Boilia-hee-omúch—the town of Séumoc or little James), Newfoer and Ballycroney, otherwise Rusheldstown; that he died 1st March 1639-40, and that his son James was then full of age and married. Under the Cromwellian regime, James Forstall, with Thomas Den, forfeited Forrestallstown, Milltown and Ballygurrim, and was transplanted to Connaght. The castle of Forrestallstown was “thrown down about the year 1800.”

“In Irish Forrestall is pronounced Furristhawl and Forrestallstown is called Bollinurristhawla.”

Kilbride, Glenmore

“Kilbride—Redmund more Forstall, of Kilbride, was pardoned Dec. 28th, 1571. Walter Forstall, of Kilbride, gent., pardoned in 1602 and 1603, was Constable of the Barony of Ida, in 1608. Edmund Forstall, of Kilbrydy, gent., was one of the jurymen at an Inquisitioin held Aug. 18th, 1623. Richard Forstall, of Kilbride, gent., and Katherine, wife of Redmond Forstall, of Kilbride, gent., are mentioned by one John Kearney as taking part in the alleged plundering of the Protestants, at the beginning of the Outbreak of 1641. Redmund Forstall, of Kilbride, gent. Appears as a juror in 1636; he forfeited Kilbride in 1653, and, with Walter Forstall, of Kilbride, was transplanted to Connaught the same year.”

Carrickloney, Glenmore

Carrigcloney Castle. Glenmore
Carrigcloney Castle, Glenmore

“Carrickloney—Edmund Forstall m’Thomas m’ Redmund of Karrcknelonyne, horseman, was pardoned iin 1548-9, and Walter Forstal fitz Edmund, of the same place, horseman, probably his son, was pardoned in 1566. Richard Forstall, of the same place, was Constable of the Barony of Ida, in 1608, and received a pardon in 1612. In 1639 Thomas Forstall gent., had a grant, under the Commission of Grace, of the townlands of Carrigneglonyne, Kilmakevoe and Knockbrack and ½ of Ballynerahie. Peter Forstall forfeited Carricknegloning, Kilmackvoge, Knockbrack and Rathsallagh, in 1653, but his name does not appear on the list of the transplanted.”

“The castle of Carrickloney was taken down in the memory of the people still living.” [See our post of 8 July 2021. One room of Carrigcloney Castle still stands complete with a vaulted ceiling.]

“In Irish Carrickloney is called Corrig-na-glooin-eeny, the rock of the little lawns, meadows, or insulated bog islands.” (Referenced O’Donovan).

Mullinahone, Glenmore

“Mullinahone—Walter Forstall of Monhowen, gent., had a pardon, in 1571-2, Richard Forstall, of Monynehoen, Gent, appears as a juror, Sept. 22nd, 1636. In 1653, Edmund Forstall forfeited Munmonewhone, Jamestown, Parkstown, and Ballybraghy. He is, very probably, the ‘Edmund Forstall, of Monyhoare,’ who was banished beyond the Shannan in the same year, and who was assigned lands in the Barony of Island, in the Co. Clare, amounting to 392 stat. acres, which after his death, were confirmed to his son, ‘Peter Forstall, gent., son of Edmund Forstall, deceased,’ by a royal grant of June 26th, 1677.”

“Mullinahone castle shared the fate of the other Forrestall castles, having been razed to the ground many years ago. Its site is pointed out in Mr. Richard Phelan’s ‘castle field,’ a few fields west of Glenmore chapel.” [Per Danny’s son, Pat Dowling, the stone head in Danny’s collection was found in the castle field of Mullinahone.]

“In Irish, Mullinahone is called Mullanahooan. This, too, is the local Irish for Mullinahone, in the Co. Tipperary. In both cases we have an instance of the corruption, or substitution, of the liquid ‘l’ for the liquid ‘n’—a very usual occurrence in the spoken Irish. The correct Irish sound of Mullinahone is Munnanahooan, the shrubbery of the lamb.”

Rochestown, Glenmore

Forrestal Coat of Arms on Family Vault, Kilivory Churchyard, Glenmore

“The Forrestalls of Rochestown, lately extinct, are traced by O’Donovan, in a pedigree to be quoted before the end of this Chapter, to a Captain Edmund Duff Forrestall, who fought at Limerick, in 1690, and who most probably belonged to the Mullinahone or Carrickloney branch of the family. The Forrestall name is still well represented in this parish.” [The photo to the right is the Forrestal Coat of arms on the family vault in Kilivory Church Yard, Glenmore. For further information concerning this coat of arms see the Kilivory section at the end of our headstone page.]

O’Donovan’s Letter (1839)

On pages 98-100 Carrigan inserted the entire letter O’Donovan wrote on 30 September 1839 concerning the parish of Kilcollumb [today Kilcollumb is divided between Slieverue and Glenmore]. The following extract from the letter concerns the Forstall Family of Rochestown.

“That part of Rochestown on which Lady Esmond’s house stands is now called Ringville, but in the title deeds ‘the Ring of Rochestown,’ It was purchased by Mr. Devereux, the uncle of Lady Esmond, from the father of Pierce Edmond Forstal Esqr.”

“The family of Forstal have been a long time located in the county of Kilkenny, but I have no historical account of them. The tradition among themselves is that they came to Ireland with the Earl Strongbow, and were located in the counties of Clare and Kilkenny. Pierce Edmond Forstal of Rochestown, Esqr., has a piece of copper with the arms of the family and the following inscription engraved on it :

Insignia veteris familiae Fosterorum alias Forstallorum comitatus Kilkenniensis in Regno Hibemiae, authentice et ex officio exiradita Dublinii, ultimo die Novembris 1674, anno Regni Caroli Secundi Regis vigesimo secundo, per Richardum St. George Ulster Regem Armorum.

[Translation: The coat of arms of the ancient family of Foster, alias Forstall, of the county of Kilkenny, in the Kingdom of Ireland, authentically and ex officio struck at Dublin, on the last day of November, 1674, in the twenty-second year of the reign of Charles the Second, by Richard St. George Ulster King of Arms.]

” Three pheons in sable, a helmett on the wreath, greyhound’s head, coop argent, collar and chain.”

XXXXXXX

To view some local medieval inscriptions see, Fearghus Ó Fearghail, Old Kilkenny Review (1996) “Some Ossory Medieval Inscriptions Revisited,” p. 94-105. The featured photo above is the ancient Celtic Cross of Dunnamaggan, Co. Kilkenny (Carrigan, v. 4., p. 36). For further information see the Kilkenny Graveyards blog (post 3 July 2016).

Please send any corrections, further information or photos to glenmore.history@gmail.com.

Dr. Kathleen Moore Walsh

Forristalstown, Glenmore (1961)

Today, we are going to feature information that Danny Dowling recorded regarding the residents of the townland of Forristalstown around 1961. The Irish for this townland, according to Kelly’s, The Place Names of the County of Kilkenny (1969, p. 102) is Baile Fhorastail, or Forrestal’s homestead. The townland is comprised of 316 acres. Kelly noted that the Forrestals lost their lands under Cromwell, and were transplanted to Connaught. Their castle in Forristalstown was demolished about 1800 shortly after the 1798 Rebellion. The hamlet of Forrestalstown (sic) is marked on the Ordinance Survey Maps and part of the roadway is called Clodach, or a miry place.

Danny interviewed Nicky “the Miller” Forristal (1888-1979) on Friday the 13th of March 1964. Nicky disclosed that the last of the local Forristals to leave during the Cromwellian period left a small son with the Gorman family of Ballycroney. Nicky believed that the Gormans were related to the Forristals. “When the chap grew up he married one of the Gorman girls and it is from this union that the present Ballyverneen Forristal’s descend from.” (DD Notebook 26) During an interview in 1970, Nicky told Danny what Tom Haberlin (1840-1920) of Forristalstown had described as occurring in Forristalstown. There were nine houses situated in Mullally’s field in Forristalstown which was opposite Cullen’s house on the other side of the lane. The Roches lived in a little house in the field. Previously the people in the nine houses were driven out of their houses. This occurred before 1870.  Later, Tom Mullally knocked the derelict houses and used the stones to build his own dwelling house (DD Notebook 2). It is always amazing how accurate Nicky was. He told Danny that Tom Haberlin died between 40 or 50 years prior to 1970 and he was about 80 when he died.  The parish records reveal that Tom Haberlin, of Forristalstown was born in January 1840 and the death register reveals that he died in 1920.

In 1961 Danny recorded ten families or households in Forristalstown. Birthdates or birth years are provided for some of the older residents gleaned from available public records. For some time after drafting his notebook, Danny recorded the dates of death or simply recorded that a resident had died.  The recorded information reveals that 48 people resided in Forristalstown with the population of 25 males and 23 females. The largest family recorded was the Power family comprised of 8 persons and there was 1 household of a single person.

Recorded Residents

Males= 25
Females= 23
Eldest Recorded Resident= James Doherty (1891-1963) although there were two other residents born in 1892. In 1961 James Doherty was  70 years of age.

Recorded Work

Farmers6 (4 males; 2 females) (included retired famers)
Farm/Agricultural Workers9 (all males) (included retired farm workers)
Labourer= 3 (all males)
Fisherman = 1 (male)
Domestic Servant = 1 (female)
ESB Lineman = 1 (male)
Postman = 1 (male)

FORRISTALSTOWN RESIDENTS

[1] MURPHY

Murphy, Edward (8 Aug. 1913) Builder’s Labourer
Murphy, Bridget (10 Feb. 1913) wife
Murphy, John  son, farm worker
Murphy, Hannah  daughter, domestic servant
Murphy, Edward, son
Murphy, Thomas, son
Murphy, Eileen, daughter

[2] McGRATH

McGrath, Martin (31 Aug. 1906) Farm Labourer
McGrath, Bridget (22 Jan. 1906) wife
Fortune, Alice, daughter
Fortune, Joseph, son-in-law, E.S.B. Lineman

[3] POWER

Power, Thomas (29 Nov.1904) Postman
Power, Anastatia (27 Sept. 1908) wife
Power, Johanna, daughter
Power, Patrick, son, farm worker
Power, Kathleen, daughter
Power, Kieran, son
Power, Angela, daughter
Power, Margaret, domestic servant

[4] MERNAGH

Mernagh, Peter (18 Feb. 1892) Retired Farm Worker
Mernagh, Mary (14 March 1897) wife
Mernagh, Patrick, son, road labourer
Mernagh, James P., son, labourer
Mernagh, N. William, son
Power, John, grandson

[5] DOHERTY

Doherty, James (6 Oct. 1891) Farmer (died 27 Jan. 1963)
Doherty, Margaret (10 Nov. 1901) wife
Doherty, Catherine, daughter
Doherty, Edward, son, farm worker
Doherty, Patrick, son, farm worker
Doherty, Anastatia, daughter

[6] DOHERTY

Doherty, Mary (18 April 1896) Retired Farmer  (died 7 Jan. 1962)
Doherty, James, son, farmer
Doherty,  Mary, daughter-in-law
Doherty, Josephine, daughter

[7] DOHERTY

Doherty, John Joseph (1923) Farmer
Doherty, Ellen, wife
Doherty, Mary Christina, daughter

[8] HABERLIN

Haberlin, Thomas (29 June 1919) fisherman

[9] GRACE

Grace, Anastatia (9 Feb. 1896) Farmer (died 19 March 1965)
Grace, Margaret, daughter
Grace, Mary, daughter

[10] CULLEN

Cullen, James (15 Aug. 1900) Farmer
Cullen, Ellen (8 June 1903) wife
Cullen, James, son, farm worker
Cullen, Edward, son, farm worker
Cullen, Patrick, son
Lannigan, Richard (4 June 1892) brother-in-law, farm worker

The feature photo above is of a coat of arms found on an ancient burial vault behind the east wall of Killivory Church ruins. The photo was sent of this coat of arms to the Heraldry Office and the following information was provided.

“This is indeed a coat associated with several branches of Forstall in the counties Kilkenny and Wexford and the City of Dublin. They all appear to have used the pronominal coat rather than with their proper differences; there was and is a good deal of carelessness about this which generations of heralds have failed to cure.  
The inescutcheon – charged with three helmets – indicates a Forstall marriage to a Kennedy heraldic heiress.  (A lady whose father left no son to continue the name.)  It is borne to indicate that this armiger’s children have part of their inheritance from their mother and after her death might marshall the two coats together by quartering.” (Micheál Ó ComáinHerald of Arms, 6 June 2020)

Please send any corrections or further information to glenmore.history@gmail.com.

Dr. Kathleen Moore Walsh

Death Comes in Three: 1868 Inquests

In our previous blog of 29 August 2021 we highlighted three Glenmore inquests that took place in 1866. Today, we are going to feature three inquests that were held in 1868 involving the deaths of three men under entirely different circumstances. One died from pneumonia, another from asphyxia, and the third drowned in a well.

John Forrestal (c. 1813-1868) of Carrickcloney, Glenmore

On 18 November 1868 an inquest was held at Carrickcloney on the body of John Forrestal, aged 55. It was reported that the deceased was formerly a farmer who retired from the management of the farm in favour of his younger brother, Thomas Forrestal. Evidence was produced that the deceased had complained of having a pain since the previous week. “No doctor attended him as he said he did not want one. He had had tea and whey, but no medicine. His sister-in-law, Mrs. Thomas Forristal, deposed that she had used some of both the tea and the whey herself, and had not received any bad consequence from it. He took to his bed, in the barn, in which he remained till his death, which took place on Sunday morning.  It was given in evidence that the deceased and family lived on good terms. Neither clergyman nor Doctor had seen the man, and he was discovered dead in bed about 10 o’clock, on Monday. A man slept in the barn, and had not been aware of his death.”

Dr. Cane examined the body and testified that the deceased’s death was caused by pneumonia, and that the valves of the heart were also diseased. Dr. Cane went on to explain that “pneumonia is a disease of the lungs, and the death took place from natural causes…there was nothing to indicate poison.” The jury accordingly found a verdict of ” Death from natural causes” (Kilkenny Moderator, Sat. 21 November 1868, p.  3).

For further information concerning the dispensary doctor, James Butler Norris Cane (c. 1840-1906), who was the doctor covering Mullinavat and Glenmore for decades, see our previous blog of 29 April 2020.

Patrick Darmody of Smithstown

On 31 October 1868 the body of Patrick Darmody, a schoolteacher, from Smithstown, was found by a farmer named Walsh dying in a field at Ballynooney half way between Mullinavat and Glanmore (sic). Earlier in the week the deceased had stopped at the farmer’s house. At said time the deceased stated that he was suffering from a sore throat, and had great difficulty in swallowing. He obtained some medicines from a “quack doctor” named Doolan, at Mullinavat. The medicine comprised an internal wash for the throat, and a bottle for external application. Both of the bottles were properly labelled, and the external medicine had a caution on the bottle that it was poison. “The chief object of the inquiry was to ascertain if the man had received injury from the use of either of these prescriptions, or if he could have accidentally used internally that intended for external application. It appeared, however, from testimony adduced, that the deceased had been most careful and cautious in the use of the bottles.”

Dr. James Cane, Mullinavat, examined the body as well as the bottles and testified that the death was due to asphyxia. The deceased had a large abscess on his right parotid gland that pressed on his trachea. He observed that there was no injury on the body caused by the medicines applied or otherwise. On this evidence the jury—of which Mr. William Costello, of Mullinavat was Foreman — arrived at a verdict ‘Death from natural causes’” (Kilkenny Moderator, Wed., 4 Nov. 1868, p. 3).

John Walsh (c. 1833-1868) of Forristalstown, Glenmore

An inquest was held on 12 September 1868 at Forristaltown, near Glanmore (sic)  on the body of John Walsh, a farmer’s son, who had been discovered dead in a well adjoining the farm yard, on the previous morning. The coroner’s jury heard that the deceased was going to take a cow to the fair of Ross early the morning in question. When the family got up at the usual time, about six o’clock, the cow was discovered in the field, although John Walsh was not in his room. A search was then made for the deceased, whose body was discovered at the bottom of a well 30 feet deep, head downwards, and even the feet nearly covered with water. “It appeared his sister, Ellen, discovered his coat in his room, and knowing that it had been his habit to go to the well in the morning to raise a bucket of water to wash his person, she went there, and, looking down, saw his feet above the surface. She promptly let herself down by a rope, and shortly, assisted by her cousin, named Edward Doherty, got up the body. The windlass over the well was found out of order, the iron handle, at one end, being out of its place; and it was conjectured that the deceased had lost his balance in consequence of the sudden disarrangement of the machinery and fallen into the well, head foremost. The skull was injured, and it was conjectured it came into contact with the bucket in the fall. The deceased was 35 years old and unmarried.”

Dr. Mullin, of Ross, was summoned by the constable to determine if the injury to the deceased’s head had been inflicted maliciously before death.  After examining the deceased’s body Dr. Mullin concluded the head injury was accidental. The jury arrived at a finding that the deceased came to his death by having accidentally fallen into the well (Kilkenny Moderator, Wed. 16 Sept. 1868, p. 3).

Thus, the juries in all three of the 1868 inquests above found that the deaths were accidental although it is understandable, under the circumstances, how each of the deaths needed to be investigated. Each of the inquests gives fascinating insight into the ordinary lives of local people from the man who would not see a doctor, a teacher who relied on a “quack doctor,” to a tragic accident on a fair day and his extraordinary sister finding and retrieving the corpse by climbing down into the well.

The drawing of the well above is older than the wells of the 1860’s and it does not have a windlass. Robert, Hubert (1733-1808). Woman drawing water from a stone well. 1763 – 1764. Retrieved from the Digital Public Library of America, http://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/90b4e4a4-4c99-1240-e040-e00a180601fd. (Accessed October 21, 2021.)

Dr. Kathleen Moore Walsh